Bhaskar Exclusive: Pegasus case is not being considered as espionage in India, but France has started investigation considering it as a criminal case

Pegasus case is in discussion all over the world. The report, released after a joint investigation of 16 media groups, said that the phones of leaders, officials and journalists were being spied in 10 countries of the world. So far, 38 journalists of India, 3 prominent opposition leaders, 2 ministers and a judge have been named in this espionage scandal. Since, the manufacturer of the spying software provides this product only to the governments, so the government itself is under question about it. The Indian government has refused to investigate the matter, but the investigation has also started in France.

The names of Edvi Planel, founder of Mediapar, an investigative journalism organization in France, and his colleague, journalist Lenag Bredau, are also on the list, whose phones were spied through Pegasus. Mediapar is the same NGO, on whose complaint the investigation of corruption in the Rafale case has started in France.

Mediapar’s investigative journalist Lenag Bredeau has also filed a complaint in France in the Pegasus case. After which the investigation of this matter has been started. Dainik Bhaskar spoke to Leenag Bredaw on this whole issue. You also read this conversation…

Question: The names of journalists from more than 10 countries of the world including India are in the Pegasus spying list. When did you know that your phone is being spied on?
answer: The team of Forbidden Stories, the organization that brought to the fore the Pegasus case, contacted me and told that our phone is being spied. ‘Forbidden Stories’ was doing investigation about this for a long time. After this they asked for our phone for forensic examination. A few weeks ago we deposited our phones at the Amnesty International center in Berlin. A technical examination of the phone revealed that our phone was hacked in 2019. That is, it is certain that many sensitive information of my phone reached others.

Question: In India, most of the names in the list that have come out so far are of journalists. Why are governments around the world spying on journalists’ phones?
answer: Attempts to ban the media are not new to governments around the world. Why journalists’ phones are being hacked and who is doing it, there will be different reasons in different countries. The Moroccan government is suspected of hacking my phone. According to what has come out so far, Mediapar’s founder Edvi Planel went to Morocco in late June 2019. Soon after that his phone was hacked, because there he raised questions about freedom of the press and civil rights there.

My phone was hacked for 15 months from Feb 2019 to May 2020. Yes, I reported about the Moroccan intelligence agency in 2015. This could be one of the reasons, but it also begs the question why data was being stolen from my phone 4 years after the 2015 report? I report on issues like sexual violence. Morocco also uses these themes to target the opposition. Maybe, because of this my phone was spied on.

Question: Being a journalist, your phone was spied on, but this also leaves your very personal information to the hackers. What worried you the most after knowing about this?
answer: Obviously, the biggest concern was about his privacy. Apart from this, I am also afraid that spying on my phone puts the sources from which I know the news in danger.

Question: There is a noise of Pegasus spying all over the world, but you are probably the first journalist who filed a complaint regarding this matter. What is the main issue in your complaint?
answer: In my complaint, I have raised the issue of my privacy in the strongest possible way. Journalist or anyone else cannot interfere in his personal space. Apart from this, it is an attack on the freedom of the press. There are also some technical aspects to the complaint. Like infecting the device with spy software. This has been done without any legal permission against our will which is a crime.

Question: There is a strong demand to investigate this matter in many countries including India. An investigation has already started in France on your complaint. What will happen at the center of this investigation? Can NSO, the group that made Pegasus be questioned?
answer: Right now we do not know to what extent the French agencies will investigate. Even before this, when complaints were made against Pegasus or other spy software, there were many legal hurdles in the way of investigation. With the investigation, we hope to get more information about what Pegasus did in 2019 and in 2020.

There will also be many difficult challenges during the investigation. First of all it has to be proved that the phone had virus. Even if this is known, it is difficult to prove that such a secret service installed it in our phone, but all the countries where the Pegasus spy case has come up, they should investigate. Because this will start a discussion on what kind of legal protection we need to avoid this kind of espionage.

Question: Will the French agencies get to the bottom of this espionage scandal? Because this matter connects with journalists as well as common people.
answer: Perhaps there isn’t another example of such hacking attempts in France. To my knowledge, this type of institutional hacking has never happened in France before. At present, the investigating agency will first seek evidence from Amnesty International’s security lab. It is not easy even for agencies to get to the bottom of such cases, but a start has to be made. Pegasus is a very complex and powerful software. It is very difficult for France and the rest of the world to stop it now. The biggest concern is that governments are involved in this kind of espionage.

If the investigation started in France, why not in India?
The interview ends here. By reading this, you must have got an idea of ​​how the Pegasus espionage scandal in France reached the investigation. The main premise that the investigation started in France is that Amnesty International’s forensic investigation found that some people’s phone data had been stolen, and this was considered sufficient grounds to launch an investigation. On this basis, an investigation can be started in India too, but even after a lot of uproar, the investigation has not started in India. Lets understand its legal aspect in points from senior advocate Sumit Nagpal…

1.On the basis of the report on the case of espionage, the central government can set up an investigation, but in the official statements so far, the government is not accepting that any espionage has happened through Pegasus. Therefore, the government has also turned down the demand for investigation.

2. For violation of the right to privacy, a person can personally file a case under the sections of the IT Act, in which there is a provision of fine up to five lakhs and imprisonment up to 3 years. In India, none of the people whose names have come up in the Pegasus case have filed a complaint.

3. In case of violation of constitutional rights, the court itself can take cognizance. There are legal provisions for investigation, only evidence is needed.